A couple questions

I just got back from having lunch with my good friend, and fellow Square Peg, Randall Goodgame. We went to the ever-popular, though slightly over-rated, Copper Kettle and had a great time. We're going to get together tomorrow to do some writing as well, which I'm looking forward to.

I briefly mentioned this yesterday, but I'd like to pick your brains a little, if possible. For the next two months I'm really spending a bulk of my time writing songs. I'll be writing for myself, for the new Caedmon's record, and also for my publishing company, which pitches songs to CCM artists.

Now here's what I'm curious about. I've never hid the fact that "christian music" makes me terribly uncomfortable. I still have yet to fully understand why I ended up here, besides it being the place I was led to. I've been struggling with it more and more, probably because I've bene listening to more "christian" radio listening for models as I write for these artists. I won't lie. There is a huge disconnect between most of what I hear and what I believe to be the Gospel. And I know a lot of you feel that way, too.

So my question to you is this, WITHOUT bashing CCM, which can be sort of knee-jerk, what do you want to hear in "christian" music? Do you listen to "christian" radio? If so, can you share with us why? Why do you think there is this disconnect, and what do I do, as a writer who can only get his songs recorded if they strike a chord with the artists, labels, radio folks, etc... who are responsible for what you're already hearing?

It's not that I don't have ideas of what to write about, it's that I wonder whether my ideas are just what I want to hear and not what is really needed. Are there topics you feel should be addressed? What about the Gospel of Jesus is comforting to you? After a hard day, what makes you seek encouragement?

Thanks for your input on this. I just need to hear from some people who don't necessarily live in Nashville and have a job related to this question.

Comments

[pkimbrel]

What do I want to hear in "christian" music?

Intelligence. Pure and simple. I think the "contemporary" side of the industry is treating its listeners like children. I guess it goes with the whole "family friendly" model. But let's compare:

Pick any of a number of CCM tunes:
"I'm broken. I'm a wretch. I'm not worthy. It's all my fault I'm stuck - pull me up"

Compared to, say, the 77's:
"Self made chains; Self made locks; Combinations, I forgot"

Okay, twenty years for now, I'll be able to stand to listen to the 77's tune for a couple of reasons.

1) It's interesting. Let's me think a bit the meaning. It's not too deep or wierd, but but it isn't just stating something obvious.

2) There's enough meat in the phrase (as well as the whole song) for the meaning to mold itself to my place in life as it changes. If I'm maturing as a christian, I really shouldn't be stuck in that "wretch" rut forever. However, as I grow and mature, different aspects of that thought will apply to different aspects of my life. The song's still relevent.

I think there has to be away of conveying the christian message without being too hookie or depressing. Have the industry considered the non-christian audience and how it reacts to music like what it produces? Perhaps it has.

Finally, what about the rest of our lives? The gap between man and God is very important, so I don't want to belittle the point. But what about taxes? What about politics? Even human psychology? What sort of interesting dualities exist between the hear and hear-after? The songs of life-eternal have pretty much been covered, but there's a bit we have to deal with until then.

[rhythmonly]

I think there's a shortage of storytelling in Christian music. When we look at the Bible, we can see time and time again that Jesus found stories to be the best way of relaying His message. Most CCM has this sort of paint-by-numbers approach to lyric writing, where they throw out a series of lines that they found "worshipful," and they just leave it at that. But there is a richness and a poignancy to storytelling, because it hits all the things that make us human, all the things that make us need God.

The best straight-up Christian album I've heard in the past few years was AP's "Love and Thunder." (And I'm not counting "The Morning" or MPJ's "Throwing Punches in the Dark" because a number of cuts on those were not explicitly "Christian.") "Share the Well" was also a major triumph...though I honestly thought Caedmon's back-pedaled slightly with "In the Company of Angels 2" (no offense, just being candid). If there were more CCM albums that had the spirit of those two (lyrically, not necessarily style-wise), the industry would have a whole new relevance.

So yeah...what pkimbrel said, plus what I said, plus whatever anyone else says.

[silentfool]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said above.

I always feel like music on Christian radio is too bland and generic to really impact where I am.

I like a good story...sure sometimes I don't get it, but if the artist is geniune and sincere I think that will be portrayed in the song (it's not something you can fake). On a side note, after hearing Andrew Peterson's "Appendix A" and the stories behind the songs, I have come to appreciate his music even more. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, when it means something to the artist, it is much more likely to mean something to me.

Aside from that it seems that Christian music tends to focus almost entirely on the good. It reminds me of the movie "Lemony Snicket's, A Series of Unfortunate Events"...the opening scene with the "Happy Little Elf"..the Christian life is not like the "Happy Little Elf", yet I feel like Christian Radio promotes that idea...I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sing "Praise & Worship" all day long, nor am I going to listen to it. There are things that happen in life that are hard. period. so telling me that I can just turn to God and everything will be all warm and fuzzy is just a lie- and I don't buy it.

don't get me wrong, I'm not hostile or hurt or anything...It's just that I'm tired of Christians promoting the idea that we have to be happy all of the time. [i'm nearing a tangent]. i always think about ecclesiastes 7:3 where it says "sorrow is better than laughter". If sorrow is so good for our heart/soul why don't we sing about it?

alright, that's my 2 cents.

[jholland]

Andy, you might be interested in reading my blog post about the panel discussion I saw at Cornerstone Festival last week about The State of Christian Music. There was a lot of discussion about where the Christian music industry is heading.

http://thedirtroad.net/jeff/journal/2006/07/12/the-state-of-christian-music-2006/

As for me, I like music that inspires. That doesn't mean it all has to be happy and cheerful, but I want music to make me think, challenge me and remind me that even at it's darkest, that God is still sovereign over His world.

...and it has to rock. Loud guitars and a driving drum beat. I don't go for cliched synth pads, canned drum tracks, and keyboard patches of strings.

Just one joe's musical opinion.

[Andrew Osenga]

That's a really interesting read, Joe, thanks for linking to that. I hadn't thought of some of those ways of looking at it. And that's a good point, rhythmonly, about the storytelling aspect. That's something to keep in mind. I love the reminder that Jesus told stories. There's some power in that idea. Appreciate your thoughts everyone, please keep them coming!

[travis]

Honestly, I want music that is theologicaly sound....

[columbo]

What's up Andrew,

I noticed that Sara Groves Add to the Beauty was named CCM's album of the year, so that is a good sign, beacause that album is fantastic, great music, great lyrics, & gospel centered.

One thing I would like to see a little more is some great sounding music like John Davis's album with some powerful, meaningful, thought provoking lyrics.

[cfessler]

hey andy,

what brought me to your, Caedmon's, and a whole bunch of other artists' music is the way I relate to most of the songs I hear. I love songs that reflect exactly what I'm going through, relating it to the truth of scripture, and reflecting on how God influences everyday life. Also, I love orignial sounding music. That is, after listening to Contempory Christian Radio, I constatntly think "Why are they trying to sound like so-and-so...".

Also, on the new Caedmon's album, it would be awesome if the band pushes the new sound of "Innocent's Corner", that song freakin rocks! I saw you play it on the Share the Well tour and was totally blown away by your amazing solo in the end... thanks for making great music

[JoshM]

Andy,

I'm on the same page as most of the others who've blogged away with comments, but I'm not sure how much help we'll be, since I think most of what we're saying is: "Keep doing what you're doing." Keep telling stories; keep exploring what different aspects of the Christian faith mean; &--perhaps above all--keep being brutally honest in your music. As silentfool said, the Christian life isn't always sunshine & apple pie; sometimes things really suck, & you have no idea why you believe what you believe any more. But if you can hold on & find God somehow in THAT, then that's hope, real hope. That's the kind of hope I find running through Coming to Life & A Place Where You Belong, in a lot of Rich Mullins' stuff, on AP's Love & Thunder. I don't know how many albums that kind of hope will sell, but that's the kind of stuff that'll actually minister to the deepest needs of the listener instead of just covering over these needs with an overwhelming--&, at times, unbiblical--positivity.

[sarah]

Well, I don't claim to be any kind of music connoisseur at all, and there is very little music I really really love. Most of my favoirte music is by artists nobody has ever heard of or who no longer exist, like the Normals and others...

I don't listen to Christian radio much (except for sermons every once and a while), but what immediatly turns me off to a lot of CCM and even a lot of emerging "youth group" music is the flatness. The songs may have really great messages and good music, but there is no passion behind it.

I am most drawn to music that is real. For example, I enjoy a lot of independent musicians because they are driven by their love for the art of making music, not being slave-driven by corporations who have to compete and make more and more money in order to be "good stewards." There are other artists I listen to who have been on labels for years, but there is always some kind of edge of realness there. I am confronted with my many imperfections so many times each day, it's good to listen to music that allows me to recognize my faults, thank God for accepting me and loving me anyway, and keep going.

Andrew, the thing that drew me to the music of the Normals the most was the fact that I identified with your kind of edge. In so many songs I could feel my heart repeating the sentiments of the songs--in trying to please God, failing, trying, failing, and trying again. Kind of like the psalms: life sucks but God is good. These are reasons I still listen to the Normals quite a bit, actually.

Anyway, thanks for your desire to go beyond the sugar-filled and safe messages that keep reappearing in the Christian music industry. I believe that God will bless your desire and efforts to minister to the real and broken hearts of His people.

[tomdm]

Hey Andrew, been reading your blog for quite a while now and really do enjoy your honesty and passion. Maybe what I like about this is there are more than a couple things that I disagree with you on....and I think thats just fine!

For songwriting input, my thought is that through storytelling, rhythym and melody the questions we ask may not have very well defined answers, but at the end of the day my faith is at least sure enough that I still know who I'm going to complain to. It was, I believe Wayne Watson who said something like "I decided to tell God how angry I was with him, since I knew he knew already." Out of that came the song "Almighty."

We claim to be 'Christian' and desire to make, listen, appreciate music. Isn't it crazy that the one who created ALL of this could possibly listen to, and appreciate us?

[Chasemonkey]

One artist that has made it big as of late in CCM radio is Aaron Shust. He is the worship leader at Perimeter Church in Atlanta, GA.

It blows my mind that he's gotten so popular since he was just writing songs for his church congregation to sing and not looking to break into the CCM market. I think he got popular because the songs he was writing for his church are what sells in CCM lately. Songs about "how great" our God is. Aaron's song "My Savior, My God" uses an old hymn in the verses ("I Am Not Skilled To Understand") and in the chorus just states things that are known by everyone... "My Savior lives, my Savior loves, my Savior's always there for me...My God He is, my God He was, my God He's always gonna be..." but for some reason that's what CCM listeners want. They want songs that just state things about who God is, why God is worth worshiping, and what he does for us. I know it seems silly, but it sells. Maybe you can help re-shape the types of songs that make it on the radio. Best of luck!

[kat]

Great question. Here's my two cents...

I want to hear life in Christian music. Every person, every songwriter and every musician is at a different place in life and comes at life from a different perspective. I want to hear how God has permeated their lives and how He's brought them to the place they're at.

God's not just a part of our lives on Sunday, so I don't just want to hear Sunday songs. I want to hear songs about love, work, family, hardships, joy and the whole gammut of life - from the perspective of someone who has glimpsed the transforming love of God and is on a journey, like me, to know Him more.

Like many people have alluded to, I want to hear passionate songs....not perfect songs.

[NicoleCox]

There are a few things I think that CCM needs...and a lot of this is influenced by Steve.

First of all, I think that the music needs to be to the quality of secular music. I think that this is a huge issue for many CCM artists...when you hear a song, you know its CCM because it probably wouldn't be on the radio otherwise.

Having said that, I think it needs to be music that people who don't listen to CCM can get into. My youth, for example, don't listen to Christian music and its hard to get them into it. If it was promoted outside the CCM arena, more people would pick up on it, thus spreading the gospel.

And finally, I would love to hear some more sound theology coming out of CCM lyrics. Some songs just do not run very deep, you know? I think that the Christian community needs depth; they need to know that they can have depth in their relationship with Christ. Easier said than done, I know, but that is the hope...

[DaveHaupert]

I think to me personally, music is not something I can say this is what I want to hear more of. I want to hear new things and be challenged in new ways intellectually, lyrically, spiritually and even musically (as a musician myself). If I were to say I want to hear more of xx than I'm really no different than the listeners that most CCM artists cater to. Those same ones accused of wanting more of the same.

So for me, more uniqueness, more surprises, more challenges, and unexplored territory both lyrically and musically is what I'm after!

Thanks for asking.

[dmacdoug]

I think we need to change the parameters for this discussion. Here my Calvinist influence is coming through, but we have to get past this notion of constantly following culture (i.e. "that new Jars-insert name of CCM group- song sounds just like Franz Ferdinand, but it's got a positive message"). With this approach, Christian music will never be as good as secular music, because it's always following culture. Because of that, it will always feel sanitized. The dialogue needs to move out of the 1950s (where it has always been). What I mean is that the majority Christian musicians are still subtly trying to prove the legitimacy of rock and roll by their approach. We have to have a positive-safe-for the-whole family message and it can sound like what I have already heard on the radio. What demographic does this appeal to? Neurotic Christians who grew up feeling guilty about listening to secular music.

It's for this reason that I don't like CCM. There is no appeal. Most of it does not engage the culture in a sincere way. Instead, much of it tries to dupe the non-churched listener with its "modern" (typically 2-3 years behind) sounds, yet Christianized lyrics. If I am honest, I feel very empty when I listen to 99.9% of CCM. I start thinking about movies like Safe (with Julianne Moore) or Pleasantville. It makes me want to act out!

There is no danger in CCM, and little art.

I would love to see CCM, as a genre, cease to exist. Instead I would like to see great provocative and original music created by Christians who make their own style of music. Here's to hoping the CCM ghetto gets gentrified.

[bryan a]

my alarm clock is set to CCM radio. this morning when it went off they were playing "Where I Began" by Caedmons. It was the first time in months i havent smacked the Snooze Button with reckless fury. What frustrates me about CCM Radio is the sheer quantity of the suckage. Even if you're lucky enough to hear 2 good songs in a row, the chances of being satisfied with that third song lies between slim and none.

why do the songs suck? i dont know that it's just one thing. talent-wise, i think there is a drop-off from mainstream to CCM. both vocally and musicianshippy. i also think that the style of music is generally lagging behind the times. not to mention the fact that CCM Radio is playing 5 different genres of songs. that's the worst part. they go from Switchfoot to Margaret Becker to Kutless to FFH to Kirk Franklin to Chris Tomlin to Rebecca St. James all in an hour. very few could hang in for the full 60 minutes with that type of playlist. Another thing that kills me is that they have no problem going back 5, 7, 12 years to play older favorites. those songs are so dated and have aged about as well as Elizabeth Taylor.

i guess when i think of songs that DONT make me change the channel, i think of songs by artists i admire. anything by CC, Jars, Bebo, Andy P,will keep me listening. i think of songs by talented worship artists. i love the songwriting of Chris Tomlin, David Crowder, and Hillsong United. I think of songs with messages that move me. Joy Williams' "you dont have to hide" song always inspires me, but i would probably never buy her CD.

what can you do Andy? well, you cant play their instruments for them or sing the song for them. so if their vocals suck and they are sonically boring, then it's out of your hands. and since for me that's 75% of the whole thing. if it doesnt "sound" good, then i'm not even processing the lyrics.

my advice is to continue to write out of your heart. if you are writing songs specifically about God and your relationship to him, then be honest and write what you feel. If you're writing about a broken relationship, a bad day, enjoying freedom, or whatever else inspires you, then do the same. you write great songs, and i hate to see you meddle with that too much. i think you can tweak some things for a different audience, but tweak too much and it loses what makes Andy O music so special.

guess that didnt help much, but it's all i got. -bry

[aeroch]

bryan a...you said basically what I wanted to say. I too try to listen to Christian radio in houston, TX. I love KSBJ for their message and the fact that they don't have commercials, but like you, I tire of the music after 2 songs. I will switch there if every other station is playing commercials, but usually I don't stay for long.

I also agree about the many genres on one radio station problem. I know that KSBJ is trying to resolve this by going to HDRadio. I don't know much about this new medium, but from what KSBJ has said on the radio, they will have regular KSBJ, then an alternative Christian music station, and a P & W music station, and a Gospel music station, etc. I think this will help me because sometimes I don't want to listen to an Amy Grant song then a Hawk Nelson song right after it. It just weirds out my brain.

Andy, advice for writing new "Christian" music. To me that's such a label. I say, don't worry about making it too Christian...like everyone else has said, write from your heart. Write about real things that are happening to you. My favorite songs are the ones that tell stories, not necessarily about God or Jesus, just something that happens in the writers life. Songs like Center Aisle, Bus Driver, and King and a Kingdom by Derek Webb inspire me to think outside the box. It also helps me connect with the performer on a more real level. I also love the song welcome home by Shuan Groves. The first time I heard that song I thought about it for a week afterwards because it was real and hit me where I was. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for in new music.

[nick_flora]

christian music needs more cowbell.

end of story.

[seth ellsworth]

I thought long and hard about this, and even prayed about it, before responding. I've come to the conclusion that I cannot respond to these questions without bashing CCM so I will refrain from a lengthy diatribe on the current topic. The current realities of marketplace Christianity and of economics (not to mention that most of the owners of record labels are not even Christians, much less seeking God's Will for the direction of the industry) in that niche market make it so that the songs we hear on the radio (that you are now attempting to make money writing - in order to pay the bills, which isn't a problem) must fit whatever the determined format is or they won't be considered. Consumers are viewed according to their willingness to pay for a product, not on the fact that they are humans with souls that can be edified, challenged, and sanctified (and maybe even saved) through music.

All of that being the case, I will say this. Many have pointed out to you that you are already doing what you should be doing, and I agree. You write songs with depth and intelligence on topics that people can relate to and that are important. And most of the time you do it without meeting the J criteria, which is fine by me. "All the Wrong Reasons" is a perfect example. We all deal with motives in everything we do. You expressed that tension well in that song.

One aspect that you could explore more of would be the redemption story of the Gospel. You already do it, but I think the Christian industry (and culture) at large needs reminded that the guts of the story are not "positive for the whole family" (sorry, I couldn't resist). They are painful, sacrificial, gory, and deadly. Out of the tragic story rises new life. It's the same with the process of sanctification. One can't truly live until they are broken down and reborn. You know this and express this. It's what marketplace Christianity needs to distinguish itself from the postmodern affirmationism rampant in Western culture. If we are not distinct as Christians because the Truth is distinct then we offer no hopeful alternative to what the world system offers. Reference Charlie Peacock for more on this (I know you've read the book...I say this for those who haven't).

I applaud your willingness to explore this topic deeply as part of the industry. I always have. It's something that, as a matter of principle, I couldn't do. I couldn't keep falling into line with an establishment that I fundamentally disagreed with and that showed such an unwillingness to turn away from the path it's on and back to what the Bible lays out. I really am hoping that you, and others in your position, can find a way to do commerce (pay your bills) and not sell out to the formula in the process. The fact that you question makes me confident that you won't.

And in the end, I have once again proven that I can't keep it brief even when I intend to :)

[yldiver]

What to write about...

Tangible hope... a scripture verse is trite, a promise to pray is worthless when you are hurting or afraid. Write about a hope that is tangible, that can truly bring comfort in a storm. Most people hurt not because of great tradgedies but from the monotony of having to live. We know there is hope to come after this life if we believe. What is the lifeline that will brings us to shore until then? Is life to be simply endured or is there real hope for joy. Can we have a passion for the time we have now in this world?

I don't really have the answer to these questions. I think what most people, post college, in the married with (or starting to have) kids category, want is to know that their life isn't just a waiting game till eternity comes.

[Cory]

After reading the comments above, there's not much more I can say. While stylistically diverse, much of CCM doesn't appeal to the contemplative audience, thus we end up clinging to a handful of artists (Rich Mullins, Caedmon's, AP, Sara Groves, Derek Webb, etc) that actually end up getting some airtime for one reason or another. My encouragement to you is to keep writing about the things that are meaningful to you personally. I know that's what I find myself able to relate to. If I controlled what was played on Christian radio, you'd hear a lot more of "Mother India" or "The Emptiest Day," but that will never be the case, so I'll keep listening to that stuff on my iPod and let Christian radio appease "the masses."

[Geof F. Morris]

I used to listen to Christian radio, but I haven't for about five years. That stopped because of two things:

1. The over-playing of songs in today's overall hit-driven radio market.

2. The general box that Christian radio wants to present: God as the way up and way out, a simple answer provided in a pop song that cuts it down to 3:41. I feel like CCM wants to present complete, finished thoughts in its musical products: listen to this song and things will be better. I find very little that really wants to make me think or meditate.

Please understand that the following example is not 100% AO ass-kissing [it's only 73% that]: "Black Dress" is the kind of thing that I would love to hear. David's tale of adultery is not something that you can package down and simplify in four minutes. But what "Black Dress" does is make the listener think exactly what you say, Andy, in that pre-release voiceover that you hate that I have: "I wanted to get into the mind of King David. Would he feel like I would? Would he be repulsed by the temptation, or would he know it was wrong and be tempted all the more?"

I feel like too much of "Christian radio" deals with attitudes of praise and glorification of redemption and not enough with the darker sides of what's going on---no differently than a congregation where you're done the disservice of talking about Jesus's power to redeem your sinful nature without ever having explored what that sinful nature is.

But man ... I think that an exposition of our sinful natures is what well and truly drives us to the Cross. We have this need to be told how utterly screwed up we are, because we want the truth at some level. And I don't feel like Christian radio gets to that---it'd rather give you the Band-Aid Jesus to make it better.

[swaz46]

I agree with what rhythmonly said in his/her reply. It seems the storytelling is lost in a lot of Christian music. But I'd like to see some storytelling about some of the great Bible stories. One of my favorite AP songs is "Holy Is the Lord" because it tells such a great story.

Your songs "High School Band" and "Kara" do a nice job of telling stories.

I'd also like to see some songs about how Christians are to LIVE. It seems that there's a lot about God's attributes, His greatness, and the fact that we as Christians aren't worthy, but I'd like to see some songs about what Jesus SAID, like "What you've done to the least of these, you've done to me," "Blessed are the merciful," etc. It seems that Christians have, in large parts, missed much of what Christ said when He walked the earth. No one, with the possible exception of Derek Webb, is really writing those types of songs that talk about the radical "upside-downness" of following Jesus.

In finishing, a couple of resources for you to consider:
"Adventures in Missing the Point" by Tony Campolo and Brian McLaren.
"The Christian Culture Survival Guide" by Matthew Paul Turner

Both books have sections devoted to Christian music and their thoughts.

Blessings, AO!

[stephenplaysataylor]

Here's what I want:

Truth, Originality, Honesty, Musicianship. In every style, this results in quality music. In Christian music, it results in tunes that do 3 things:
1. Cause the listener to engage with God
2. Cause the listener to engage with other people
3. Cause the listener to engage with/appreciate creation in some way

This is what music is all about.